@gabrielesvelto @Mozilla @mozilla_support @fuchsiii yes, and #Mozilla deciding to fragment #FirefoxOS more by basically letting #MNO / #MVNO run the #AppStores instead of having a reference one made it worse than the chinese domestic market cuz at leadt there one can just get an agent to enshure one's apps are in all #Android AppStores there...

• It really felt like a regression in a time when even #prepaid providers in #Germany stopped #NetLock|ing & #SimLock|ing devices and #ALDItalk was the established prepaid leader with a €2,99 flat between it's clients.

@gabrielesvelto I still remember #FirefoxOS and I'm still mad at @Mozilla / @mozilla_support / #Mozilla for self-sabotaging because neither me nor @fuchsiii nor anyone else I knew who did #WebDev / #AppDev / #MobileDev could even buy a device.

• The only device that I was aware of launched in the #EU was a #SimLock'd & #NetLock'd #prepaid phone in #Spain which wouldn't sell it to us since they demanded #KYC with a spanish residency address.

I mean it's cool that one could just use #Firefox as #Emulator but no #mobile #OperatingSystem will have any chance of market attraction if one cannot buy the bloody thing!

• Same like #OpenMoko: I'd love to get a #Neo1973 but none of the phone and electronic stores had it (and back then I was under 16 so I couldn't just make an account at an online shop)…

@Rusty @snow like #FirefoxOS?

@fschaap @netopwibby yeah, but why is it in the drawer (besides #FirefoxOS being let to die prematurely)...

We may be aware of Firefox OS' existance in the past but it was never even tried to be sold anywhere to any effect.

• And believe me, both @fuchsiii and I tried to get our hands on any device that came with it and I've never heard of the #ZTE Open C before, much less any device being sold in #Germany which is absolutely flabberghasting to me given that in the late 2000s and early 2010s #Mozilla #Firefox was the dominant #Browser in Germany and thus had the best chance to leverage that customer base with good integrations like #MozillaPocket / #FirefoxPocket.

I still love #Fennec aka. #FirefoxMobile but I'm still mad at @Mozilla for not even trying to sell me a device, cuz I was at the time literally shouting: "#ShutUpAndTakeMyMoney!" and searched the (back then 4) MNOs' and their (half a dozen) MVNOs' stores (both retail and online) and never came across a Firefox OS device.

• Same with (online) electronics retailers: NONE of them even had a single listing when I looked for those.

Which reminds me of the (coined by me term) "#RedBlueIndex" [named after the parent company that owns both #Saturn and #MediaMarkt, the two biggest, spechalized electronics retailers]:

• If you can't find a product on shelf at Saturn/MediaMarkt, it doesn't exist in the minds and conciousness of the average #consumers!

@ciourte @netopwibby Needless to say I've only heard of some Spanish low-cost #MVNO offering one device only in a #prepaid #bundle when #FirefoxOS was unveiled at the #MWC in #Barcelona based off coverage in @ct_Magazin at the time.

• Cuz I remember #WebDevs like @fuchsiii really loving it because it was the then hot & fresh #HTML5 + #JS6 + #CSS3 combo to make it super-easy to do #Apps. All one needs to build an app was #Firefox as Browser and the ability to basically zip' it.

Alas @Mozilla deciding on purpose to literally splinter the market by letting #MNO|s and MVNOs run their #AppStore|s instead of a #centralized model, making the situation worse than in the "P.R." #China where there are several vendor-independent #AppStores for #Android.

• "Conspiracy Theorists" even suggested that this was deliberate self-sabotage to benefit #Google and #Android, tho needless to say Firefox OS aimed at devices & specs that were too low for Android.

Still, I'm #StillMad at #Mozilla for faceplanting Firefox OS cuz it had the easiest way to get started and a good architecture being every #App is just a #WebApp and all the system calls were standard #HTML5 permissions and nothing fancy.

• Basically #PSvita - Syndrome, but worse as in #OpenMoko #Freenunner:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p76exsJn7SU

@netopwibby OFC #FirefoxOS would've been a success if people exited about it (like me) and #developers (like @fuchsiii) were ever abke to legally obtain any device with FirefoxOS on it.

• AFAIK the only Firefox OS #phone offered in the #EU was a #SimLock'd / #NetLock'd #Prepaid device sold in #Spain, where they demanded #KYC for the #SIM, making it impossible to legally obtain it back then without having to fly down to #Spain, ID at a store, fly back and then be overcharged for #DataRoaming!

IMHO, @Mozilla / #Mozilla cannot be trusted at all!

@bohwaz @punkfairie @ajsadauskas @JessTheUnstill @tomiahonen That's exactly the problem, cuz #KaiOS nee #FirefoxOS was a good and solid basis not just for #LowEnd-Devices but could've been excellent for a more #secure mobile OS, as it has good potential for #sandboxing and #KISS-principle'd #Apps that are lean and efficient.

But then again when enthusiasts like @fuchsiii and I were shouting "#ShutUpAndTakeMyMoney!" to #Mozilla, they basically refused to sell any #device, and then we get the "#PSvita-Effect":

• Noone's gonna build an #App for a platform that is essentially a rounding error from the start!…

@punkfairie @ajsadauskas @JessTheUnstill @tomiahonen @fuchsiii Yeah and #Symbian is used with cheap phones of a brand named #Swisstone.

Case in point: #KaiOS nee #FirefoxOS is now drowned in obscurity because of #Mozilla mismanagment and hamfisted approach compared to #Android.

@ajsadauskas @JessTheUnstill @tomiahonen @fuchsiii Maybe had #Mozilla actually cared they could've convinced #Nokia to do #FirefoxOS and we'd not have the shitty #Duopoly of today, but as we all know the decisions were made by #TechIlliterate suits that are just #HornyForMoney"…

@ajsadauskas @JessTheUnstill @tomiahonen yes, and to add insult to injury #Mozilla didn't even wanted to sell people like @fuchsiii or me a #FirefoxOS device, with the only one being "launched" in the #EU being a #SimLock'd & #NetLock'd #prepaid phone in #Spain one could only attain in-store with all the "#KYC" nonsense they had, demanding a legal address in Spain back then.

• So whilst Firefox OS had the most "#accessible" #Development #tools (literally using #Firefox for it and having every #App as #WebView|s / #HTML5+#JS5+#CSS3 files in a container), they didn't even sold us said devices, making it a worse flop than #UbuntuTouch which at least still gets some devices made that support it...

And #nerds like myself are far from the "#consoomer #Normies" for whom stuff that isn't on shelves at Staturn/MediaMarkt, BestBuy, Walmart, ... doesn't exist. I'm used to importing #tech that I want!

• Feels even more half-assed than #MobileCoin in hindsight…

@ajsadauskas @JessTheUnstill also #BlackBerry's #PlayBook #Tablet was released as a accessory screen for their Phones, which gave it "#WiiU-Effect" in terms of marketing.

• Plus #RIM relying hard on business clients and their proprietary applianced mail systems and having big carriers upsell to business people made them look outdated & quite literally out of touch once #iPhone went mainstream.

I mean, the hardware was never their problem and #SMS-Typists swear by their #BlackberryCurve's #keyboard but BlackBerry's #toolchain - just like #SymbianOS's - was just hideous to the point that devs like @fuchsiii didn't even want to try making #Apps for those devices.

• Unlike #Mozilla fucking up #FirefoxOS by refusing to sell devices to #developers, by the time RIM & #Nokia came from their high horses, their market shares had been squeezed into mere "rounding errors" by #iOS and #Android as it was way cheaper and easier to get #Apps developed, tested, sold, bought and use them than on their devices.

#Sony even released some #Symbian #S60 devices but since they didn't have the same signing keys, one couldn't even #sideload apps (not to mention they didn't had the #OviStore on those either!)...

@Rusty @dragonarchitect I disagree re: webOS and FirefoxOS.

#webOS failed due to lack of market penetration (there was only like 1 Tablet from #hp) and #FirefoxOS failed because @mozillaofficial didn't even offer to sell devices to folks like me and @fuchsiii that wanted one.

• The only devices with #Firefox OS in the #EU were a few #NetLock'd #prepaid phones that got sold in Spain (reqiring ID for no valid reason!) and which were essentially useless for anyone outside of Spain.

Add to that the absurdity that #Mozilla basically expected carriers (!!) to maintain and provide the #AppStore|s themselves and you get market fracturing worse than the "P.R." #China (!!!)…

It was mismanaged and self-sabotaged in the worst possible way.

• Similar to how #OLPC never sold the #XO1 in retail and didn't even offer the "Give one, Get one" deal in most places...

The #Duopoly of #Android & #iOS wasn't unavoidable, but an outcome of #SelfSabotage and halfassed non-commitment by competitors!

@Rusty @dragonarchitect well, it's because @mozillaofficial fucked up #FirefoxOS, #SailfishOS was run into the ground, #webOS got neglected, #Microsoft halfassed #WindowsMobile and #Apple refuses to license #iOS to 3rd parties.

• Thus #Android is the only option if you device doesn't want to look like it's from the early 2000s...